You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

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Entejay
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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Entejay » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:45 pm

crow wrote:Being a left-wing drone is very bad for you. And bad for humanity as a whole. What you do in microcosm messes with the macrocosm.
And what is the macrocosm? God? Religion? Something that is outside of your control and something that you should obey without questioning? I think you would love to be a slave, don't you? Like I said, your mentality is very much alike to someone who goes to join to ISIS. Maybe you are one of them who came to Canada to declare a shaira law and tell people how to live and behead them when it suits your "macrocosm"?
In the same way you are so prone to project your own flaws onto anyone who is not you, so does the Left project its own failures onto proxies like capitalism, conservatism, monarchism, etc.
It's called progress. We strive to do things better. We do not adhere to religious books that claim that they know everything. And then end up fucking up the whole world. Perhaps we are excused for making mistakes at the times. Why don't you try to show us what you can do? All your kings, feudals ... and eventually gods...have fucked up this world much worse than we ever came close to. Look in the mirror before talking.
The Left has been thoroughly wrecking Western society for the past sixty years, yet it still claims itself as savior.
Wrecking? I don't see how. The only reason why you sit today in front of your computer without any threat of some head choppers running down the street in the wild killing spree is because some leftists decided that it was immoral to do so.
I'd like to like you, but I am unable to. Because there is no you to like. There is only a mob, raging at an enemy that is - in fact - itself.
I think you love to make excuses and then believe into them as if they are true. You repeat telling me that there is no such a thing as "ME". But I am very much here telling my own opinions. I guess you would love to have that "ME" replaced with some religious book, or some dictator wannabee replacing the minds of his or her people with their own? Like I said, you just love to be slave, don't you?
You can step out of that mob, any time you like. It does take a bit of work, though.
I can do both. Anytime. I guess we all know who needs to work on themselves. It surely is not me. Perhaps the religious books aren't as interesting in solving the world problems as they claim to be? A change in method perhaps required?
Entity wrote:The issue is, democracy can exist within socialism. I believe this spectrum:
Communism Socialism Capitalism Fascism

The two on the outer sides do not work and should not exist.
The middle two work, but have their flaws.
Democracy is a frail little butterfly, because it requires everyone to listen to each other. Has that ever really happened? Democracy may take its flight in the middle two, but it may falter in both. The left and right thing has been going to crap, so why don't we all just think our own thoughts without boxing them into broken little categories like "Democrat", "Republican", and "Libertarian".
Has there ever been communism exist in the world? Has there every been fully democracy exist in the world? It never was. So, how can you claim that they are failed systems?

Soviets never claimed to be communist. Nor did China. The closest what they had was state run capitalism with socialism sausage on top of it.

Democracy? We almost never had that either. Capitalism is an inherently anti democratic system and constantly undermines the democracy. When you have free run capitalism, you can't talk about democracy there.
Last edited by Entejay on Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by crow » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:37 pm

This illustrates what lurks inside. Poke it once and out it squirts.
End of demonstration.

Entejay
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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Entejay » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:44 pm

crow wrote:This illustrates what lurks inside. Poke it once and out it squirts.
End of demonstration.
Is that what you all about? Poking around for demonstration? I thought there was some "ME" in it too.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by crow » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:33 pm

'Me' doesn't count for anything. That's the big secret that is incomprehensible to anyone to whom 'me' is everything.
Perhaps you can vaguely detect the vastly experienced forum-admin in me. It is practiced in detecting bear traps, mines and ambushes.

Entejay
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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Entejay » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:59 pm

crow wrote:'Me' doesn't count for anything. That's the big secret that is incomprehensible to anyone to whom 'me' is everything.
I don't think "ME" is everything for me. I am aware of the fallacies of human nature. That why I seek evidence to support my claims.
Perhaps you can vaguely detect the vastly experienced forum-admin in me. It is practiced in detecting bear traps, mines and ambushes.
I'm not sure why do you have to put it here. I have a very good control over my ego. Whatever your forum admin experience is, I don't think it will have any effect on me.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by crow » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:00 pm

I am sure you are right. Nothing could have any effect upon you. You are stuck somewhere that never changes.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Entejay » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:25 pm

crow wrote:I am sure you are right. Nothing could have any effect upon you. You are stuck somewhere that never changes.
I'm pretty sure that I am quite open minded. I do not think that I am always right. But given the sufficient amount of evidence, I'm sure I can make correct decisions most of the time.

Yes there is some element that doesn't change (and that is because nothing better comes by). The way we perceive the world around us, and how we make sense out of it...is pretty much constant and never changes.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by crow » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:41 pm

Everything you think you know can suddenly be turned upside-down.
That's too terrifying for most, and so they cling in desperation to the awful place they are, because the unknown may be far worse.
I've always been a jumper-from-cliffs, utterly fearless.
Not many have the heart for it.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Entejay » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:00 pm

crow wrote:Everything you think you know can suddenly be turned upside-down.
I'm pretty sure that not everything can suddenly be turned upside down. For example, I know that logic will not be overturned (which you don't see any value in it, but have no idea how it looks to have no logic), I know that 2+2 will always equal 4 (there is always proof to show that)....I can understand that people can turn upside down emotionally. But that hardly "everything".
That's too terrifying for most, and so they cling in desperation to the awful place they are, because the unknown may be far worse.
Humans are afraid of the unknown. Sure. But I am a curious person. So I try to reach the unknown, instead of staying away from it.
I've always been a jumper-from-cliffs, utterly fearless.
Not many have the heart for it.
Of course not many people have heart for it. And for a good reason too. I hope you didn't hurt yourself at the process.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by crow » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:22 pm

2+2=4 is not logic. It is mathematics. Einstein's irrefutable laws are regularly being discovered to be incorrect.
The user of logic assumes he is equipped to be logical, merely by labeling it 'logic'. Assumptions do not make this so.
I don't care how things 'look' to others. Why would I?
You observably don't try to reach the unknown: you automatically reject anything that doesn't fit your personal 'reality'.
From pain comes wisdom.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Entejay » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:44 pm

Yes it is logic. Mathematics is based on logics. We call it formal logic. What we use among each other in conversations is called informal logic. But principles are the same. Logic - is all about how things interact with each other and what rules govern them. Just like when we think about something, we govern our thoughts in certain patterns. In certain hierarchy. If we don't follow that hierarchy (logic) we will not understand each other.

You should care about how things look for others. Especially if they know what you are talking about. Being consistent with the reality out there is for your benefit. And I do not say that everybody knows very well what that reality out there is.

I have no other choice but to reject what I do not understand. The burden of proof is on those who make the claim. If they fail to prove it, then their claims get rejected. That is how logic works. That is how our universe works.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by crow » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:56 pm

Sorry to say, no, the universe does not work that way. People work that way. And you have witnessed how well people work.
I have no use for logic because logic gets nobody anywhere, except in their minds.
Reality is a state of no-mind.
Of Mystery.

There's nothing that puts the life into living quite so much as Mystery.
When you start from a baseline of "I don't know anything", knowledge floods in. That can not happen when you already think you know.
How I differ mostly from others is in not owning knowledge or packing it around inside my skull.
I pluck it from the air, as needed, which isn't very often.

Entejay
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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Entejay » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:00 am

crow wrote:Sorry to say, no, the universe does not work that way. People work that way. And you have witnessed how well people work.
I'm pretty sure it is. Whenever I put two pieces of something equal over another two pieces of something equal to the first ones (and to each other)...I always get four pieces of the same thing stacked over each other. That is how the universe works. And you can demonstrate it by trying to repeat doing what I just said. Logic is not a human invention. It is the discovery. This is what we have discovered about universe. This is how it works. And this is how every human works too (being the product of the universe). We do use logic even in this speech. Without it, you wouldn't understand a single thing that I just said.

I am aware that humans do not possess an ideal information. I am aware of that. But compared to religions....if you put it on the scale of the "truth".....what I just said is something that comes on the top of the scale, whereas religion doesn't even move above the "zero" mark.

This is the best that we can do. If you think you can do better, then demonstrate it. If you can't then .... welcome to the club.
I have no use for logic because logic gets nobody anywhere, except in their minds.
I'm pretty sure that logic is not inside our minds only. We imitate the universe. But that is all what we do...imitate.
Reality is a state of no-mind. Of Mystery.
Reality or mystery is irrelevant without a mind.
There's nothing that puts the life into living quite so much as Mystery.
So those people who starve to death in Africa, or kids who die due to abortion...they have the best lives possible?
When you start from a baseline of "I don't know anything", knowledge floods in. That can not happen when you already think you know.
And what happens at the moment that information flooded in? It instantly becomes "no information" as well? Just how do you make a distinction between information and no information....if you refuse to make any distinction to begin with? I think you are talking nonsense. A circular logic. That defeats its own purpose.
How I differ mostly from others is in not owning knowledge or packing it around inside my skull.
I pluck it from the air, as needed, which isn't very often.
Nobody owns the knowledge. The scientific knowledge is open to anyone who has a skull on their shoulders. Including you. Whatever you pick from the air on the fly...is probably not the best way to get it anyway.

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Re: You hear about the TPP? Neither did I.

Post by Dohavior » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:01 am

I feel an ENTP "I told you so" buzzing about in my ear...

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